Weeds AR Wild S4 Ep5: Talking Rice Weed Control with Dr. Ford Baldwin

In this episode of the Weeds AR Wild podcast series, Dr. Jason Norsworthy, Distinguished Professor and Elms Farming Chair of Weed Science with the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture, is joined by Arkansas Agriculture Fall of Fame member Dr. Ford Baldwin.  Drs. Norsworthy and Baldwin discuss recent phone calls and herbicide recommendations in rice.

Transcript

[00:00] Jason Norsworthy 

Welcome to the Weeds AR Wild podcast series as a part of the Arkansas Row Crops Radio. My name is Jason Norsworthy, Distinguished Professor and Elms Farming Chair of Weed Science with the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. Today I am joined by Dr. Ford Baldwin. Many of you will know Ford is a member of the Arkansas Agriculture Hall of Fame, and it's really a pleasure to have Ford sitting in with me today to talk about rice. And we're going to talk some about the phone calls that we're—we're getting. Ford, it's great. It's a pleasure to have you here with us today. 

[00:45] Ford Baldwin 

Well, I tell you, talking about a pleasure. I mean, this is—this is like old times. I mean, I’m, you know, I'm an emeritus professor, and I still consider myself a part of the university faculty. I mean, my grandson is about to graduate. It’ll be the fourth generation of us that have graduated from the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville. You know, spent a career on the faculty and—and this is just a hoot. I mean, you're—you're one of the people that I think: you're just one of the bright lights in, in agriculture. And it’s just a hoot to be on the program with you. 

[01:17] Jason Norsworthy 

So, Ford, you've moved to Florida, but in the summer months, you come back to Arkansas and you spend some time here again walking rice fields, taking phone calls, helping out rice growers throughout the state, as well as just any other random issue—weed control issue—that you see out there. And again, we're going to talk some rice today. I know I've been—last 2 or 3 weeks—eastern Arkansas, pretty much from I would say I-40 south. It's been wet. We're behind. I think the northern portion of the state got a much needed rain, probably 7 days, 10 days ago now. And they're well ahead in terms of planting. What are some of the phone calls you're getting? 

[02:01] Ford Baldwin 

Well, this—they just kind of run the gamut. I mean, you know, I was out, made a, a longer swing than I care to yesterday at my age, but but we've got rice anywhere from still being planted to being flooded. So, you know, you're getting the the early season phone calls. But but a lot of them are rice either be ready to flood, some frustrations out there about trying to get herbicide put out either because of the wind or primarily being surrounded by by other crops that seem like we plant everything at the same time now. And that, presents some, some problems. We're getting the normal drift-type complaint. So, I mean, you know, there's just some things that you don't want to do. You don't want to drift Halex GT and Atrazine towards soybeans or toward rice or, you know, Clincher, or Highcard, Provisia... some of those things toward corn. I mean, there's just that, those kind of calls, I mean, even picking up and I think maybe you have to, suspected herbicide carryover call, or two. And so they just kind of, kind of run the gamut. 

[03:12] Jason Norsworthy 

So, you know, I mean, you touched on something there, and that is the fact that, you know, this early-planted rice that we have—we're going to flood with it. I was I was in eastern Arkansas this weekend and saw a good bit of rice, you know. A lot of nitrogen going out, a lot of rice that's being being flooded up. And, you know, as I said there just a second ago, I mean, I've talked to guys that are planning on planting rice probably this coming week if the weather permits. And, you know, a lot of guys, I think try to—if they can—get rice planted over a week, two week period. You're able to manage it all the same, treat it the same. But with that, we're going to see a lot of differences in how we treat this rice. Because this early planted rice, it may take us seven weeks to get to flood. And you don't have a lot of weeds at least early on. When you think about late March early April, you get a lot more out of those residual herbicides just in terms of time because it's cooler conditions. What do you think about this rice going in the ground now? What do you what do you expect from a weed control standpoint? Some of the issues we're going to contend with? 

[04:24] Ford Baldwin 

Well it's going to come out of the ground quick. I mean, it can come out of the ground, what, 4 or 5, six days and and, the grass does the same thing. I mean, the rice is going to come up quick. The grass is going to come up quick. I mean, and also, that the later-planted rice faces even more issues about being surrounded by susceptible crops, whether it be a different technology or whether it be soybeans or corn. So in, in in the residual type herbicides are typically more user friendly than the post-emergence type herbicides. When it comes to, to, you know, adjacent crops. So it's imperative that they, that they get residuals out more than one mode of action of residual out right off the bat. And then overlay them. know, when you look at the the rice going to flood, the, the people that were successful with their overlays and they and they overlaid soon enough, between applications, those that are in pretty good shape, I mean, the ones that didn't overlay or they tried to stretch them too long, especially under some of these wet conditions when they, you know, tend to break down quicker. those are the people that are frustrated right now trying to get post-emergence treatments out. 

[05:41] Jason Norsworthy 

You know, I've had some calls over the last few weeks and folks tell me that you know, where they have followed the recommendation of about every ten, 14 days going out. They're putting a residual out. They've been very, very happy with where they they are. And, you know, other ones I've talked to said, hey, I've got a residual at it planning and it didn't carry me as long as I thought it would. It broke. And and I'm in a situation now. And, you know, part of that I think is, you know, wet conditions, you start having water sit on a field, some of these herbicides, some of these herbicides, you put water on them and they break down under anaerobic conditions. Some of them break down more under aerobic conditions. So it's just kind of it's going to kind of differ from herbicide to herbicide. What you can get out of those residuals. One call or one call that I keep getting at this time of year. Now it's warm enough. We've got pigweed comeing like crazy and especially, you know, this row rice. We've, we've got issues with it. Because if you don't have a strong residual out there for pigweed, it's just going to keep coming. And when I think of row rice, Ford, I generally think of at least one, if not two additional applications that I'm not going to have in a flooded system. What are—what would be one of your recommendations in terms of pigweed control in row rice? 

[07:05] Ford Baldwin 

I mean, you read a lot of them. It depends on what you can do. I mean, what what can you put out or get put out. But I mean, early on, on on small pigweed, I think we still miss a bit on, on Propanil. I mean, it just seems like I get a lot fewer Propanil calls all the time every year, I think partly because everybody said, well, I'm not, you know, barnyard grass is just resistant to Propanil, but it it does so many things other than, you know, barnyard grass control. And so, I mean, I think on on small pigweeds sometimes, especially if you're just trying to buy time to, to get your rice to a little bit later growth stage or whatever. I mean, just a gallon of Propanil on the small pigweeds. But but once they get much size on them, I mean, you're about going to have to go to a growth regulator type herbicide. I mean, obviously, you know, Loyant would probably be the first choice, if you can get it out. But, you know, I've had a couple of calls on: “I got soybeans on both sides of the field. I can't get Loyant out. What about, what about 2,4-D?” You know, in some cases, even the soybeans were were, Enlist. So that might have makes it even nicer, getting 2,4-D out, but, where it can be used, and I don't commit those 2,4-D regulations to memory. So. But but where it can be used, it, it still has a place—probably second best to Loyant, but. 

[08:28] Jason Norsworthy 

No, 2,4-D is an excellent herbicide. I mean, I would say that, it's. Yeah. Second probably to Loyant. The problem, you know, I like Loyant—you know, like 8 ounces of Loyant for pigweed control. We're starting to get a lot of beans up, and it's it's hard to put an Loyant out by air if you've got beans in the vicinity. And so with that, I think again there's been more and more guys wanting to do 2,4-D as you said, you know, Propanil—Propanil is going to be the easiest to put out. regards to having beans around, cotton around you. Whatever you have around you. Propanil is going to be the easiest. About one inch, maybe an inch and a half is where I like to see Propanil on pigweed I don't really like to push it much beyond that. Another option is, Sharpen. You know, an ounce of Sharpen with crop oil looks very good on 1 inch pigweed. We need to be mindful that we've got some PPO—PPO resistant pigweed out there. If you have PPO resistant pigweed, Sharpen’s not going to be very effective or it will not be very—it will not be effective for you. So just keep that in mind. You know, along the 2,4-D Ford. I mean, you've you've been around for a few years and I mean you've 2,4-D I've gotten a couple of calls here recently, folks. Got two, two leaf, rice, three leaf rice. And again, they're a little bit hesitant to spray Loyant, so they, they asked me about spraying 2,4-D on two-leaf rice. Three leaf rice. My response is absolutely don't do it. what are your thoughts on. 

[10:08] Ford Baldwin 

That is a very bad idea, and I'll get a call on that. Not every year, but but, you just do not put 2,4-D either pre-emergent or, and I say pre-emergent at planting or in, in the seedling stages on rice. It’ll simply roll it up like onions and in, in it, a lot of times it really never fully recovers. I mean, that's just, that's just a bad idea. are I do get some, some calls about putting 2,4-D out on tillering stage rice. And we might want to talk about that a little bit if you. 

[10:42] Jason Norsworthy 

Want to know. I think that that would be good. I agree with you. I mean, I think tillering stage when I can't going to get up to tillering a little bit beyond that. I think that's that's a good time to put it out. I mean what so when we think about where we can spray 2,4-D, what's, what's the earliest we can spray it and where do you see the latest being. 

[11:04] Ford Baldwin 

Well, the latest is easy. I mean that’s half-inch internode you know, and I hate those calls every year. And you're going to get some you get them in wheat and you also get them in, in rice, well. You know, my joints slipped up on me or I just haven't been able to get it out. And my joints out there are a couple inches long now how much are by going to reduce my yield if I put 2,4-D on it. And if you, if you just look at the graphs on that, the injury starts increasing, or yield reduction starts increasing at about half an inch internode and it peaks out there about the boot stage. So you know, I could never tell anybody just how much yield loss you're going to get. But again, it's just a bad idea to be trying to put 2,4-D out at half-inch internode. You know, for that reason, we we get more calls about late tillering rice and, and, you know, the recommendation used to say from, from, like green ring out to half-inch internode. That's a pretty narrow window. And I think there's more leeway on the front side of that window when you get into the late tillering stages and, and I'd rather be a little early than, a little than a little late. The old 2,4-D recommendation in the MP 44 is tied to the way we used to fertilize rice years ago when, when we were putting a lot less of the fertilizer out pre-flood and a lot more of it out, in adjoining stages. And, and we don't do fertilizer like that anymore. So, I don't know what the earliest you can put it out. I mean, I've heard some people say 40 days after emergence, but the later into the tillering stage you get, I think the better off your, you know, eight, ten, 12 inch rice and that, that that's very well tillered. I'm not a bit bit afraid to put it out at that stage. 

[12:51] Jason Norsworthy 

No, I would agree with you. along those same lines, like I said, in terms of making these applications and, trying to understand what you have around you, you know, Regiment, you've got Regiment, you've got Gambit. folks are looking at putting those out, especially as they're going to flood right now. I'm getting a lot of phone calls on that. I'm actually recommending a good bit of that. But with that, again, you've got the soybean issue when you talk about Gambit, when you talk about Regiment, you know, with Gambit and Regiment, you're really not going to have a soybean out there that's going to tolerate those. We've looked at STS, soybean. Gambit is probably not going to kill an STS soybean, but it's going to make it extremely, extremely sick, you know, Permit Plus where we've got, where we've got some sedge out there and we're trying to control, maybe some coffee bean is we're going to have flood Permit Plus has been a recommendation that I've been making for for things like that. what about your thoughts as you go to flood and you've got some soybeans around it and you've got regiment. You've got you've got Gambit. what are some other options that you might have there? 

[14:07] Ford Baldwin 

Well, of course, if you're just worrying about soybeans, I mean, obviously Ricestar, Clincher you know, Ricestar, Basagran, is one you look at a couple of herbicides. If someone's trying to control grass, trying to control some annual sedge that you can get out pretty easily around soybeans, that, you know, the problem with Regiment is, yeah, one is soybeans, but the other one is corn. And and, you know, I make a lot of recommendations. Ricestar, Regiment pre-flood on conventional rice is one of my one of my favorite pre-flood treatments. Especially if you're in a little bit of a jailbreak situation. You got three, four, five inch. I mean, leaf rice, but, grass. But, I just have a lot of my Regiment calls come back that I, you know, pilot, just won’t put it out, you know, this time of the year. So you when you start looking at surrounding crops, a lot of times it's, not necessarily plan A, it may be plan B, C, or D, it's just what you can get out, I mean. Some of these fields. I mean, I've even just wound up saying, if you can't get Ricestar put out or Clincher put out or Regiment put out or Beyond put out, just saying just load it up with, with a Facet, Command, tank mix and just just hope for the best, you know, something that you can get sprayed. 

[15:31] Jason Norsworthy 

So let's you mentioned Ricestar. You mentioned Clincher. I've recommended a a lot of Ricestar in some places Clincher here in the past past few weeks, as you said, you folks are going to flood. They've got they've got grass, they got soybean around them. Let's talk. I know you had a student, Nathan Bearing, that would have been, I don't know, Ford that was late, late, probably. It was a couple of years ago, late 90s, that, Nathan did some work, basically looking at Ricestar and looking at Clincher. And, you know, my thought on that is, and I'll just tell you where I am, and I'm and I'm kind of curious where you are, is that if I'm on dry ground, I think Ricestar works a little better than Clincher on dry ground, I recommend Ricestar in that situation. If we've got wet conditions or if we're gone to flood, I think clincher is a great herbicide. It's a good barnyard grass material, but I, like my Ricestar in 2 to 3 leaf if possible 2 to 3 leaf. rise small barnyard grass, put some residual with it, try to carry me on in flood and then if I need to do anything behind that again kind of use clincher post flood. What are your thoughts on those two herbicides? 

[16:49] Ford Baldwin 

Yeah, if you look back at did Nathan's work in and then you just look at the experience, you know, we've had years and years of experience with both of them since then. You know, just just kind of one blanket statement is, is Ricestar HT tended to normally look better than Clincher pre-flood and then Post-flood there was really no comparison. I made Clincher looked better than in Ricestar HT Post-flood. There's there are some exceptions. If you if you start, you know, picking certain grasses, you get some fall pannicum calls along, Clinchers a better herbicide on fall panicum than Ricestar HT, you get a crabgrass call here and there. Ricestar HT, in my opinion, is a better crabgrass herbicide than Clincher, but, if you made a comment about Clincher, both of those herbicides respond to soil moisture very well. But I would say Clincher is a little more moisture dependent. I mean, normally, if you think about the ground being ground up to get on with a ground rig, then I would start worrying about Clincher activity, there. But, small grass I've had I've had more Clincher pre-flood calls this year than probably ever. I mean, there's a lot of it going out, I think. Small grass, one, two leaf barnyard grass. Excellent soil moisture, mix it with a residual. It’s been a good treatment, but just day in and day out, I've always felt like Ricestar HT was was a little better pre-flood herbicide. 

[18:22] Jason Norsworthy 

You know, with Ricestar also you've got, we've got a 17 ounce to 24 ounce, use rate. So, I mean, at least the 24 ounce use rate, if you get in a bind, you can try to drop a big hammer on something. you know, clincher, 15oz is the top end of what the that that label says. And I know at one time Corteva was looking at hopefully trying to increase that. I don't know where they are today, but I really would like to see that clincher rate, go up. That's at least based on the plot work we've done here, is if you've got some grass out there four leaf, five leaf, 15oz is really generally a struggle. So that's just kind of my thoughts on on that. Along those same lines, you know, when you spray an ACCase herbicide and you know, we've got Highcard out there today, we’ve got Provisia out there. And I've been getting phone calls last the last week on folks sprayed Highcard or they sprayed Provisia. They went back to the field four days later in the barnyard grass wasn’t dead and the weedy rice wasn’t dead. I mean. 

[19:31] Ford Baldwin 

Go look for a week. I mean the rule of thumb is just don't don't go look for a week. I mean, they're they're reasonably slow. you know, the other thing about those herbicides that you might bring up in, I know y'all been done some work on this to kind of back it up, but. But, it won't be long. We'll start getting 90 plus degree temperatures, and and it just seemed like all of those herbicides do not work as well once we start getting 90 degree type weather, I can. I mean, I can't tell you how many years consultants and farmers would be calling me early in the season to say, man, my Ricestar HT, for example, is just working the best it's ever worked. And you get to about the 1st of June then we start getting those 90 degree days. All of a sudden people are calling me saying, I can't kill anything with Ricestar. And again, that's just just an example. But those herbicides definitely respond in a negative way to high temperature I believe. 

[20:32] Jason Norsworthy 

No, I agree with you. And you're right. I mean, anytime you're above 90 degrees, especially for back to back days, I think you have a reduction in efficacy or or control and, and, you know, this early planted rice, we're probably fine there. but this rice, it's going in the ground now, if it's Provisia, if it's Max Ace rust, chances are in the next 2 to 3 weeks, I find it hard to believe that we're going to be looking at anything, less than 90 degrees in another couple of weeks. And that's where, like you said, you're going to start seeing some, some issues. But but we've also what's interesting on that is for the most part, we'll see a reduction in, in control on the, on the barnyard grass, on the weedy rice. But then at times I will also see more of a response. I get more injury calls when the temperature goes above 90 degrees along with those failures. Not sure what's going on there. That's something that we're in a we're in the process of trying to look at right now and try to better understand what's what's causing that. But along those same lines, as you just you mentioned, Ford, I mean, it's it's going to take seven days to see your response. And, you know, the listeners need to also be mindful of the fact that Highcard has a safener in it. Isoxadifen is the safener that's in that that is going to slow the activity of that herbicide. And so with that, I will see activity probably two days at times, three days sooner with Provisia them with Highcard when I have them side by side. But one thing you don't want to do, you do not want to go back in. And seven days after making that first application, go back in and spray a second one. We have done some of that. And, that can be severely, severely injurious to the rice. The other thing to keep in mind as it relates to these herbicides and Ford, you've mentioned it back with Ricestar and Clincher, and the same goes with Ford, goes with Highcard and Provisia and that is under wet conditions those herbicides are going to be a lot more active than, under dry conditions. So that's kind of what, what I'm, seeing in some of the calls, there another issue that that I or another call that I get, a lot of folks call wanting to throw the kitchen sink at this stuff. And when I say kitchen sink, I'm talking, five way mixes. And, I don't know what your thoughts are on that. But with me, it scares me. it's hard for us to look at just any and every combination out there, and there's really it's impossible for us to go start looking at five way mixes. But, you know, if you think about rice, it's basically got to metabolize these herbicides. That's the tolerance mechanism out there. And you start putting four way mixes, five way mixes out there. You're just asking that that rice to metabolize a large, large dose of herbicide in a very short period of time, or else you're again, you're going to have some response. What are your thoughts on these four way, five way mixes? 

[23:52] Ford Baldwin 

I tend to agree with you that, I get a, I don't get a lot of calls, but I get sometimes more than I would like to get, asking me about some, you know, so and so has recommended this and it may be a four or even five wao tank mix, and I'm just always a little bit uneasy about those two. One is the cost to just trying to do everything if, if the situation is such a mess that that it's going to take five herbicides to try to control it. I mean, I've always felt like you're better off to to go for the stuff you need to kill the worst first and then maybe deal with the rest of it later. You know, sometimes ideas and I'm not saying all those recommendations are bad, and a lot of those fields I'm not walking in looking at, you know, compared to the person that maybe made that recommendation. But, you know, some of the recommendations I get is like, why did you even have to scout the field? I mean, you know, if you're going to put everything in the MP44 in the tank, you really didn't need to scout the field. So, you know, maybe they have a place here and there, but for the most part, you know, I'd rather take it 2 or 3 way mix and get what I can get and see where I am. 

[25:03] Jason Norsworthy 

Well, again, I think that when you're in that four way, five way mix, my thought is you probably haven't done a good job of overlapping your residual herbicides on the front end. And so now all of a sudden you've got a lot of weeds. So if you've got a diverse weed spectrum you're trying to get back in front of. And you know, we talk time and time again, that's gonna cost you, an emerged weed is going to cost you more money than putting out a residual and keeping a weed coming from coming up any day of the week. 

[25:33] Ford Baldwin 

That is, if you can kill it. So many times you're throwing these hundred and $50 kitchen sink recommendations out there and still not controlling all the weeds. I mean Anything can happen. I mean to get you in a situation like that. But if you're consistently getting in that kind of situation, you really need to be taking a long look at the residual program. And one of the the tendency these with overlaping residuals is, well, you know, my farmer just said that field is so clean he just didn't want to spend any more right now. But like you said, you let the weeds start coming up. And then you can't get the treatment sprayed that you really want to get sprayed. All of a sudden you're going to spend two and three and four times that much money and you might not be successful. I mean, post emergence, especially barnyard grass control, if it gets beyond about the three leaf stage, it's just very, very frustrating. And, and so the, the best money you're going to spend is if you're not spraying, I would say dirt and rice, but since I'm on a University of Arkansas program, I should probably say soil and rice, but, but but you're spraying fields that you don’t have any, you’re overlapping residuals where you don’t really you don't see any fields that you don't see any weeds in. And that's a much cheaper, much more effective alternative to than what we're going to have to deal with from this point on this growing season on emerged weeds, in my opinion. 

[27:00] Jason Norsworthy 

I agree with you. Another call that I've gotten over the last week, and I mean this has been several even came in yesterday is I had 3 or 4 yesterday and that's we're starting to as we go to flood or getting ready to go to flood. We've got some sick rice out there and you know, there's I have I mean some of is there's no telling as to what what caused it. But what are your thoughts in terms of going to flood with sick rice. And when I say sick I mean we're going to blame this. We're going to say herbicide, issues with herbicides on rice. 

[27:33] Ford Baldwin 

Well, I mean that's hard when it kind it depends on what it is. I mean, for example, if it's New Path injury, on conventional rice, I mean, some of those you kind of want to hold the water off of a little bit. I think that's just a by field decision. Based on what the you know, what the herbicide was. And I'll take that question a little bit differently because I got into that three different times yesterday. Where a field has had, it where there's a rice field or maybe it's another crop. One was a corn, one was a soybean, one was a rice. Actually the field that had had a drift on it, part of the field was affected and part of the field wasn’t and and but the part of the field that wasn't affected needed, needed attention that either needed fertilizing. It needed flooded if it rice or it needed weed control if it was soybean or corn. And you know, my philosophy on that is you treat the thing like it didn't have anything wrong with it. I mean, you can't, because a lot of times the affected part of the field might be 4 or 5 acres and you got 80 acres in, in the rest of the field that needs attention. I mean, you don't give that a second thought. You treat it like, you know, like it hadn’t been affected. And hopefully if it was a drift that perhaps an insurance company or someone has looked at it, that's just part of what goes along with it. Don't don't get carried away worrying about the sick rice and let the, the good rice, you know, go beyond when something needs to be done. 

[29:01] Jason Norsworthy 

You know, that's a good point. I think, and that the consideration is, is whether the entire field has the appearance of being sick or whether it's just a drift in a corner of a field. And you're right. I mean, if the majority of the field’s ready to go to flood, I would echo what you just said. And that is going and put you pre-flood herbicides out, put your nitrogen out, take the field to to flood and deal with the consequences that you might have on the smaller, smaller portion of the field. But if you've got an entire field that’s showing damage. And as you said, if you've got if you've got an ALS herbicide on there, ALS herbicides generally when we go to flood and we put it under anaerobic conditions, we're going to call some more stress. And that's just the flooding process in general, folks need to be reminded, the flooding process is going to cause stress on that rice for a few days before it compensates for the aquatic conditions that it's under. And so just be mindful of that. And you're right, Ford it is really a case by case basis that we're going to have to look at these if we've got some some damage. 

[30:09] Ford Baldwin 

But you get to a point, you have to roll with it. I mean if the rice is big enough to flood and it is time to be flooded. You know, you get to a point. You just you just have to roll with it and see what happens. 

[30:19] Jason Norsworthy 

No, I absolutely I agree with you. Hey another weed, you know, the one that I've been getting a call on a weed and not only that is I've noticed a lot of this year and that has been a, day flower. it's just it's one of those random years, and I guess this is a day flower year. I've gotten more day flower calls over the last 2 to 3 weeks, and I've had probably in the last five years, and I've seen more day flower in fields this year. What's your go to, on day flower? 

[30:55] Ford Baldwin 

Depends on what I could get out and speaking of day flower in general, you know, one of the herbicides that we talk about a lot being underutilized is Bolero. or thiobencard. And, and, you know, thiocencarb may not do anything great, but it does a lot of things pretty good. And you know day flower suppression is, is one thing that that thiobencarb has always been pretty good on if you're, if you're in a situation where you have a history of it, but you know, post emergence, Basagran, Basagran and oil is pretty decent or Propanil, Basagran. I used to recommend Grasp on it some. I don't get many calls on Grasp, I don't have a field, very much Grasp going out at all. Regiment is has been pretty decent on it. I don't know about Loyant, perhaps you do. 

[31:52] Jason Norsworthy 

I don't know, no, I haven't had, you know, I've sprayed a lot of Loyant in the last 6 or 7 years. And, like I said, I just haven't had a lot of day flower. I've got plenty of day flower out this year. I could probably collect some data on Loyant, but I couldn't speak with intelligence as to what Loyant’s going to do. For me, my go to has been like you said, it's been Propanil, Basagran, Basagan, oil has kind of been what I generally recommend if I've got day flower out there in the field. 

[32:19] Ford Baldwin 

You know, the thing about Loyant is the first question I ask is, you know, is it going out with a ground rig. I mean, because aerial applications of Loyant are just very, very difficult. So you, you know, for Loyant to work on anything, you're almost got to be in a ground situation. 

[32:37] Jason Norsworthy 

No, I, I agree with you there and you know Loyant for me also if I'm going to put Loyant out with an airplane, and there's any soybeans around, I think we've done a lot of work to show that it really needs to be on fertilizer. If it is going to be on fertilizer, you've got to have 16oz on fertilizer, to get the same activity that you'd get on eight ounces of, of spray. But all fertilizers are not created equal. I'll just remind everyone of that. If you've got ammonium sulfate and you're putting Loyant out that is going to create a lot of dust, that's going to move long distances. Really. I like to see a good you urea prill l that we're putting it on. That's going to have minimal dust. If I'm going to try to drop, Loyant into the flood. Ford, anything else that you've seen that or any other comments that you have, I mean, we've gone on here now probably 30, 35 minutes rambling, probably rambling. Exactly. It's just here's what we're seeing here is kind of where we are today and, and… 

[33:39] Ford Baldwin 

Hey, you know, the main thing I would just say is ask. I mean, if you, if you have any questions about anything about a recommendation or whatever that, that you're uncomfortable, just ask. I mean, whether you call Jason, whether you can call me, just ask somebody. And and if you have any doubts about something, it can be safely applied. And I have had some of those calls this year. I like it when somebody says, can I can I drift this herbicide toward this crop or whatever. I mean, I love those kind of calls a lot rather deal with them. You know, sometimes the answer's yes. Some, the answer is not no, but you know, and and, so if you have doubts that way, call, 

[34:24] Jason Norsworthy 

You know, like you, I rather deal with it on the front end. Yes or no than the phone call. Oh, crap. I've got this on there. And then is it going to grow out of it? 

[34:33] Ford Baldwin 

Well, absolutely. And there are so many, you know, we talk in generalities, but there are just so many situations. I mean, almost everything is an individual type situation. And and there's a lot of things out there just that, you know, the number of situations out there right now are just infinite. So, if you have questions, just call somebody you know. 

[34:56] Jason Norsworthy 

Well, hey, Ford again is truly it's an honor to have you on, this podcast. And I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to, to join me. And I want to say thanks to our listeners for joining us for this episode of The Weeds AR Wild podcast series on the Arkansas Row Crops Radio. 

[35:33] Intro/Outro 

Arkansas Row Crops Radio is a production of the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. For more information, please contact your local county extension agent or visit uaex.uada.edu.