Weeds AR Wild S5 Ep2: Resistance Concerns and Management Tips for Glufosinate and Enlist (3/24/25)

In this episode, University of Arkansas weed scientists are joined by colleagues Larry Steckel from the University of Tennessee, Jason Bond from Mississippi State University and Daniel Stephenson from Louisiana State University to discuss herbicide-resistant weed concerns and management tips in glufosinate and Enlist-based herbicide systems.

Transcript

[00:00] Intro/Outro

Arkansas Row Crops Radio, providing up to date information and timely recommendations on row crop production in Arkansas.

[00:11] Tom Barber

Welcome to the Weeds AR Wild podcast series as a part of Arkansas Row Crops Radio. This is Tom Barber, extension weed scientist. And today I'm here with fellow weed scientists Drs Bob Scott and Jason Norsworthy. All of us with the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. I'm also really excited to have several weed scientists from surrounding states with us today. I've got Dr. Larry Steckel from University of Tennessee, Dr. Jason Bond with Mississippi State, and Dr. Daniel Stephenson from LSU. And fellas, I just want to take a moment here at the beginning and thank each and every one of you for joining and taking time out of your busy schedule, to be with us and discuss some hot topics in the world of weed science here for the Mid-South. And I know, Dr. Bond and I were talking before we got going here, and they, they got a lot of rain yesterday or yesterday evening into the night or last night. And, we would love to have one in some places in Arkansas. But, you know, I think, this season's moving real fast already. We've planted quite a bit of acres, and we're not even, to the end of March, so some just some key talking points that we wanted to discuss today amongst our Mid-South states last week and really the last week and a half, there's been a lot of talk about potential for having, 24 C for a dicamba formulation to be used in Xtend crops this coming season. And the best I can tell from, discussions with folks and what little research I've done on the topic is basically, right now that's just a lot of rumors and, and we really don't have any options. I want to pass it to Doctor Larry Steckel from Tennessee and just see what he has to say and what info he can provide on that.

[02:06] Larry Steckel

Yeah. Tom, a lot of a lot of speculation, a lot of rumors swirling. Some of it, you know, there was a little bit of fire. There were some groups trying to look at getting maybe a 24 C for dicamba. The problem is there's really been no registrant that's going to step up and do it. And in part because most of the dicamba the generics are made in places they make 2,4-D or another auxin and they can't 100% say they're they're clean. So that's been a lot of the drive. So really going forward, what I'm telling my folks, you better be relying on Liberty post or Enlist, 2,4-D and Liberty and really, really stressing the block and tackle stuff, trying to keep pig weeds and grasses from ever coming up because we can't control them post no matter what we're doing, even when we had dicamba. So, stacking residuals is the only way to go.

[02:56] Tom Barber

All right. Thanks for that. What about you, Doctor Stephenson?

[03:02] Daniel Stephenson

So from the dicamba standpoint is a non-issue. Just rumors down here. The rumor was that Tennessee is going to get it and we're going to follow suit. But that's that's just rumors, From the standpoint of weed control stacking residuals. As Larry pointed out, Johnson grass is becoming a much bigger problem down here. A lot of acres going to corn because a lot of guys are so afraid of beans. Some guys haven't got a bean crop in a couple of years due to weather. So the corn acres have exploded. And with that, the use of, a lot of atrazine. So there's gonna be a lot of failures with atrazine this year because the residuals just ain't working. Big move to the Enlist soybean here. There's certain areas of the state where, Corteva were able to get growers in a big area to all move to Enlist. So it's going to be interesting to see how that works out this year. But it's, stacking residuals. That's all we can do to control grasses and pigweeds, Tom.

[04:03] Tom Barber

All right. Thanks. I think a lot of us are in in the same boat. I know y'all fall Johnson grass. For many years down there, y'all got a, worse population than we do. Just north of you here. Dr. Bond at Mississippi State. What, what's your thoughts on the topic?

[04:21] Jason Bond

Well, like you said, Tom, it it is wet in parts of the delta and further south you go, the wetter it gets. I think so that always this time of year shift your focus and, you know, are we are we shifting off corn yet. Probably not yet. But you know that that point in time always comes and so on. Our row crop acres you know, we've been since fall, I mean, winter of 24 when those labels were first vacated. And we've been back to advocating our full program that we did prior to Xtend and Enlist, you know, going back to 14, 15, 16 and and so that's where that's where we will ride with it. And, you know, hope for the best.

[05:09] Tom Barber

All right. Well, thanks for that. And, and, Bob, I know that and for those out there that, that listen to our podcast that participated in a survey that we sent out during winter meetings and through our text app, over across the Mid-South, we thank everybody for participating in that. Bob’s had a sneak peek at that data a little bit. And, just I'm curious, Bob, to their answers to some of those questions about given the fact that dicamba might not be available for 25, how they're going to move forward. Yeah.

[05:45] Bob Scott

Yeah, that was a big question we were interested in. I did pull the data up, Tom, and look at that at that one and the responses from it. We did get 227 responses to that survey, which we worked really hard to get that in front of as many growers and consult and, as possible. And I, I really do appreciate the response that we got because it took a few minutes to fill that out. And if you filled that out, you'll know what I'm talking about. But, yeah, that that question in lieu of dicamba, you know, if you, if you're staying in, dicamba crops, what are you going to do? The number one answer by far in that survey was more liberty. There was a smaller percentage, in the area tested that said they were going to go to Enlist, a little bit concerning. I think it was like 13% did respond, I don't know. So they hadn't made up their mind yet. What they were going to do. And, it concerns me. And given some of Dr. Norsworthy’s data and some of the data coming out of, Tennessee from Larry too about the effectiveness of liberty on some of these populations. That, you know, I, I pointed that out at county meetings. I talked about that survey a lot and the need to to really load up on the front end, with residuals. I also talked a little bit old school about cropping systems and trying to get to narrow rows or even just crop rotation to corn and get get out of there and get some atrazine, in the, in the mix. So it's a, it's a pretty tough situation for some people that have, you know, multiple resistant populations for sure. And I am concerned on the survey time going back to the liberty and the something like 70% of them said more liberty, 60% somewhere in that range. You know, most of the liberty, from what I can tell prior to me coming back from administration and just being back this year was going out late. Well, if you're going to rely on liberty, that needs to go out first and, and when the weeds are really little. So that's a big switch in where that, that herbicide fits into that weed control program, whether that's soybeans or cotton. I would think.

[07:58] Tom Barber

Oh absolutely. I agree. And and it absolutely matters where they're farming too, as you, as you mentioned. Because as a matter of fact, we'll just go in and talk a little bit about the populations we're dealing with. I know for us and in Arkansas, Palmer, especially for soybeans and and cotton and probably corn to some degree. Palmer’s still our number one, most especially in northeast Arkansas. And, I think I'll pass it to, Dr. Norsworthy first. Just kind of talk about some work they've done with some of the populations of Palmer up there, and then we'll let, Dr. Steckle chime in after that and share some of his, stories or data. Jason?

[08:43] Jason Bond

You know, you know, northeast Arkansas tends to be the hot spot, for us when it comes to resistance to anything. And I say Northeast Arkansas not wanting to steal Larry's thunder, but it's, right across the river on his side of the the river. They've got issues there, like you said as well, but glufosinate, we're seeing glufosinate fail on, a good many populations up there in northeast Arkansas. Some of that appears to be spreading, when we think about it from a post emergent standpoint, we actually screened one of those populations here recently, and we've documented resistance to auxins and resistance to glufosinate. PPO resistance, ALS resistance, Diuron resistance post, glyphosate resistance. What am I missing? I’m missing one other. There was seven-way resistance. From a post emergent standpoint, I guess the moral of the story here is there's populations up there that if they come up, and you planted cotton or if you planted soybeans, you're not really going to have what I would consider an effective post emergence option. I'm not going to say that they were zero's all of those herbicides, but they really weren't what I would consider effective post emergence option you know, atrazine, from a post emergent standpoint, still be, still is extremely effective on all those populations we've tested. Paraquat stills is effective on all of those those populations. And it's all about starting, as we've already said, here, with a very, very strong residual. The problem you run into though with residuals, and I'll be frank here, you know, several those PPOs, we've got PPO resistance. We have, some group 15 resistance things like Metolacholor are failing on some of these, these populations. And we're in desperate, desperate need of of new chemistry. I don't want to make this a new chemistry talk, but we're in desperate need of new, new chemistry. We're going to continue to farm significant acres up there in northeast Arkansas, start with a strong residual, continue overlapping those residuals, and hope that it doesn't come up and also, the last thing that I'll study is now, I know this is a hard pill to swallow considering where we are today, but you can't let those things go to see if they go to seed again, we're just going to continue to exacerbate a problem that exist in that area.

[11:14] Tom Barber

Yeah. So always have a chopping crew on, on standby. Right. And I know a lot of those growers in the area do. I mean, we've heard numbers, you know, from northeast Arkansas that exceed well over $100 an acre in hand weeding. So, I know that they've made an investment, to some degree up there, but I think it's going to require more obviously, with that information moving forward. So, Doctor Steckel, a lot unlike, Doctor Norsworthy, I blame basically Tennessee for all our resistance problems

[11:45] Larry Steckel

Hahahaha.

[11:46] Tom Barber

We want to hear, you know, we want to hear what y'all are doing to help us out over there.

[11:53] Larry Steckel

Well, we we do a little bit of pointing fingers, hahaha. So yeah. Very similar. Kind of where y'all are, closer to the river, the harder the pigweed is to control. I don't know what it is about the Mississippi River, the North Delta, but the pigweed, they're just like a whole new species. For most of the state in Tennessee, Liberty still works fairly well. We still got a lot of resistance issues, but nothing like what they have along the river. And, kind of like Jason outlined. It's just easier to say what will work as is it’s just a lot shorter list. So. And like you say, it's paraquat. Pyroxasulfone still still has pretty good shelf life. Metribuzin still has pretty good shelf life. And then other than that, everything is compromised to some, some degree or other. Whether you're talking a Dual, Warrant, you know, we're lucky to get ten days residual, less in some cases, depending on the population. In that river bottom, and then post emergence, we're still getting better traction than y'all out of liberty, thankfully. Now how long that's going to last? I don't know that that pollen blows across the river gets us every time, Tom, haha. So. So we might have liberty resistance? Because I thought I was a little concerned last year with some of the Liberty resistance we had. And, then I called you, and I felt a lot better. You're talking like, four, four quarts, and you weren't touching it, and and at least I was getting 50 or 60% control with a quart, so, it sure beats nothing. But the only thing that is working is a tank mix. So, you know, Enlist and liberty, that's been the best thing we've had, even on those resistant populations. And then stacking them back to back seven days to ten days apart. You know, we're getting close to maybe 80% if we do that. But if you try and do it with one or the other, just liberty or just 2,4-D  you you're not. We're not getting any traction out of that.

[13:51] Tom Barber

Right. Yeah. And so, you know, we've talked about what these growers may do, what the farmers may do, coming up, this season. And that may be one reason they're shifting to enlist, because they have the benefit of tank mixing those and getting a little better post emergence control. Doctor bond. What about, you know, we've done some work with early planning. I know, y'all are able to get out in the field a little earlier than than we are. Although y'all might have had a little more rain than we had this year, so I don't know if that's inhibiting things, but, do you look, do you think your guys or your farmers down there, will try to hit a little earlier planting window, especially for maybe soybeans to, to get through, some of these issues.

[14:39] Jason Bond

I don't know that we will try to plant early with this particular problem in mind, Tom. I think we will plant as early as we can, up to and including. I talked to a guy this morning that was, you know, wanting to get started. So we've got a full week left in March, and so we'll always have some dryland stuff go in, you know, closer to the levee, particularly down south where you get us some rolling, some rolling ground in the south part of the Delta. You know, they can't irrigate. They'll be some going early, but, you know, April 1st, we will definitely start thinking about planting beans in full force. And, and I think a lot of that it the agronomic drives it and the weed control kind of comes along for the ride, if that makes sense. I think we we realize the benefit in the weed control in the interest of the agronomic.

[15:34] Tom Barber

Yeah. Well, do you, any other advice? I'm assuming, you know, in that northeast or, Excuse me. North west corner of the Delta in Mississippi is probably dealing with some of the same problems we're having right across the river from you there and then. 

[15:54] Jason Bond

We do. You know, Tunica County, Comal County, those are ground zero for us, which is, you know, on the south end of y'all's your worst area. And then, of course, with the exception of Memphis being between us, but, you know, right close to Larry's worst area, you know, those, those parts, you know, we got a little bit of history with Enlist cotton in places. So there's, you know, some comfort, with that system even. But, prior to Xtend, we had some heavy Liberty Link areas in that part of the Delta. So there's some memories of that. So, I think it remains to be seen for us where all the Enlist is going to land. I mean, people some people know that already. I'm not privy to that information yet, but, so I think we will have some Enlist. I don't think we'll have, as much Enlist as maybe we once may have had. And so then we're down to just exactly what y'all discussed. Heavy on liberty. Liberty and Enlist. On the Enlist acre. Because I do think, like Larry said, that's a better treatment, than liberty by itself. We're heavy on pyroxasulfone of all shapes and sizes and and I feel like a lot of Metribuzin hits the ground as a pretreatment for us, whether that's just mixed with paraquat to for the control benefit on the emerged weeds or whether it's in a premix, you know, for the actual residual control component of it.

[17:39] Tom Barber

Right. And, you know, just talking to growers in the state, I think we will increase our Enlist acres over here. Like Bob said in the survey there, I still think we'll be majority Xtend at least, I know we will in cotton. And I'm making the assumption that we will in beans as well, especially if we're, east of Crowley's Ridge, along the river, down through there, and down into southeast Arkansas. It seems like we're, we've historically been Xtend or Xtend flex in that area. And I think we'll probably continue to be from a technology standpoint. Daniel, you said y'all's, growers may be increasing Enlist down there. Is there anything? I know, I don't know why it is, maybe somebody on this call can explain to me why pigweed doesn't like to grow as much in southeast Arkansas and into Louisiana, but it seems like there's less of less of a problem. Anyway, with Palmer, in Louisiana than than we're having, so. So what do you think? If they're making the shift to Enlist, what do you think's behind that? And and, any recommendations, that you would make in that system?

[18:55] Daniel Stephenson

So probably the biggest reason for the shift is, fear of, Dicamba moving off target. So you see, a big collective of growers are getting together and, you know, neighbors making sure that, you know, you’re going to go Enlist, I’ll go Enlist. And they did the same thing with Xtend. So it's a lot of coffee shop talk and decisions that have gone into it. And some varieties have performed relatively well down here. So that's the reason I see for the biggest shift that way. Now that's not I mean that's just pockets, Tom. That's that's not the entire state of Louisiana. I would say northeast Louisiana. So getting up in towards you guys, there's probably going to stay majority Xtend the the I'm sorry the pigweed problem. We've we've always had to rotate and use multiple modes of action just because of the broad weed spectrum. We rarely had just a monoculture of one particular weed. Then you got the, the, the rotation of crops. So we've been lucky that way. But where it’s bad it’s severe. So we do have a big problem from a from a program standpoint, Liberty plus Enlist one's great. Absolutely. But you've got to have residuals out there. Or it’s going to fail on you. We've always had a lot better luck. With with Liberty or glufosinate in the state from an efficacy standpoint. Maybe that's the humidity and with high humidity the better the activity. My fear this year, because there's going to be a big glut of using glufosinate this year, is they're going to try to go out and spray 6, 8, 10 inch pigweed, and then they're going to be calling and saying, what the heck, I thought it was supposed to be good. So i our guys don't have a lot of experience. Some of them use it, but it's not near the experience of some of the other states I have. So that's a concern of mine moving forward.

[20:58] Tom Barber

Well, well, let's dive into that a little bit. And and you know, whether it's Enlist or Xtend, they're both both technologies are tolerant to glufosinate so glufosinate will likely be a key in each one of those systems. And there's a lot of different formulations. So, I'm just curious. I know all of us have looked at the the Liberty Ultra or glufosinte L or L glufosinate, formulations that are a little different than the standard 280. And then we have a Surmise 5 and I don't know how many are out there that are like Surmise 5 that are your basic glufosinate but just a heavier loaded product. And so, anybody particularly want to jump in and dive into their experience with, the Liberty Ultra versus some of these other glufosinates that we have?

[21:55] Bob Scott

I'll comment on it. We had a good look at it this year in a trial looking at GPA and time of day studies. We we saw virtually no difference between Liberty Ultra and the traditional Liberty formulation. Actually saw a little bit of an increase in activity. I thought with the ultra at five gallons. We're going to repeat that. This coming year. But to me, they're about the same. And, you know, this shift to liberty, not to get off that topic too much, but it it does remind me of when we first found roundup ready pigweed in the state. And we were like 95% roundup ready beans. And we had, you know, a couple of Pigposiums back to back where we talked to guys about using Liberty. And we learned real quick that we can't use Liberty the way we used to use roundup. And so if guys have been, you know, putting it out late or using it as a salvage that we're we're back to where we were back then where we're talking about spraying, you know, 2 to 3 inch or smaller, pigweed after a good pre-emergent program. And, and if we don't do that, like, I can't, I don't remember if it was Jason or Daniel that mentioned spraying 8 or 10 inch pigweed. It ain't going to work on them when they're that big. And you are going to be in a situation where you're going to want to spray again really quickly. With with two sequential applications that that's essentially a salvage at that point, you know, with Liberty. So, it does present a definite change in how we've been using that chemistry. But as far as the new ultra, I like that formulation. It was I think we looked at 24 versus, was it 32, 36, was the comparative rate, and they were exactly the same efficacy wise, except for that little difference at a lower GPA where we actually thought the ultra was better.

[23:57] Jason Norsworthy

So just a follow up on that. There's another one that's that's going to be coming. Should be here any day now, Interline Mega, which is a UPL product is going to be comparable to the Liberty Ultra from the standpoint that it's a loaded, it's the isomer which essentially is the active isomer which Liberty ultra is Interline Mega is also, the active isomer. One of the point just to make about this is, you know, if you go back 4 or 5 years ago, there were folks that were talking about $80 a gallon, Liberty. The price of glufosinate today is the lowest they did has ever been. I was seeing, I had an individual that sent me a, spreadsheet on some prices here last week, and I was seeing a gallon, I think it a gallon of surmise, going for 13,50 to $14 a gallon. So we're talking less than $4, an acre, 3.50 to $4 an acre for glufosinate. And with the you know, we were talking about timing as a result of it being this lower price. I'm hoping that we can get over these acres in a timely basis and spray smaller pigweed rather than waiting, waiting for them to get 8 or 10in tall and trying to get, quote, more bang for buck.

[25:23] Tom Barber

Yeah, well, all that's based on weather too. We can start when they're small then the wind will pick up or little rain and then the next time we get in the field, they'll be too big. And that's, you know, I know we all have that concern, with a system like this. You know what I'm dreading, I guess, is I have the hardest time convincing some cotton farmers, mostly to use residuals because they're either on a lighter soil, or they've always had injury and they're afraid to, you know, lose the stand. And I get all of those concerns. But the fact that we have one less tool and liberty requires such, I'm not going to say specific size. We, we need to be spraying small weeds regardless, but that window is very tight to get in there and get an application, accurately to the size of weed that we can kill. And so failing to put out a residual, whether it's cotton or beans or any crop, really, we grow in Arkansas anyway, I'll speak to that is just to me, you're setting yourself up for failure, especially with the data that you have. Jason, on the all those populations in northeast Arkansas, the one things, the things that do work are the residuals right from those pigweed up there.

[26:49] Jason nORSWORTHY

Most most of them, I mean, there are some exceptions. And the residuals, the residuals today are much more effective than the post emergent chemistry.

[26:58] Tom Barber

Right. Larry, what about I know you did a lot of work with time of day of the glufosinates as well. Back mostly, I guess, on the 280 formulation of the regular old Liberty. Have you done any of that with Liberty Ultra?

[27:14] Larry Steckel

No, I really haven't. It's probably something we need to follow up on with these high load glufonaites that are coming out. But, you know, back then, I would think it'd be very similar. You want to spray it during banker's hours to have the best efficacy out of it. So you know, nine to, you know, four in afternoon, something like that, five. You start spraying in the evening or first thing in the morning and it isn’t much different than water, time of day is a big deal. And then I know Bob always says it's got for a rain fast period. It needs every minute of it. And I imagine that's going to be the same for these high load liberties as well.

[27:50] Tom Barber

Well, and one of the things that, again, I'm concerned about is if, if we've been, if the farmer has been used to the Xtend system spraying dicamba with the TTI nozzles, those are all going to all have to come out of the rig to be have a good, effective application with with Liberty, I would assume. We all feel the same on that?

[28:10] Larry Steckel

Absolutely.

[28:12] Jason Bond

Yes. You've got to have a course, you don't want any larger than a coarse droplet. And even then I prefer a medium droplet. But when you start getting coarse or beyond that, you're going to see a definite reduction in, efficacy. One other thing, though, that I also want to mention on on beans, Liberty is not very forgiving when it comes to the growth stages, either. I those beans or flowering, I know that we're tending to plant earlier and earlier maturing soybean. If those beans are flowering and you go over the top of them with glufosinate, you're going to have a high risk of of shedding, shedding blooms. We actually did some work last year and the beans were just starting to flower, and we went over the top of them with See and Spray, work. And we had yield differences between our See and Spray treatments in our broadcast treatments, which were purely a function of the amount of area we spray.

[29:07] Tom Barber

And that was with the glufosinate?

[29:09] Jason Bond

That was with glufosinate.

[29:11] Tom Barber

And, what rates were y'all putting out?

[29:12] Jason Bond

That was 30 to 32oz.

[29:15] Tom Barber

Of the standard formulation?

[29:16] Jason Bond

32oz standard formulation. And it was like I said, those beans were R1 somewhere between R1 and R2. Is is where we went over the top of them. And there was definitely it was, we lost four bushel per acre with our broadcast applications versus See and Spray applications. 

[29:38] Jason Bond

Talking about Liberty. And, you know, we've mentioned nozzles, we mentioned water volume, we mentioned time of day, we mentioned weed size and application. All that to say, you know, you've got to make a good application with this thing. At that time of day, years ago, we learned that the hard way, most definitely spraying at night. But then one thing I was, as we were discussing that, that I was thinking about, it's a long way from the, you know, North end of Larry's territory in North Tennessee, to the south end of Daniels territory. You could just say Baton Rouge or I-10. So we always have those spells in May where it turns cool. And Liberty also is very sensitive to temperature. Yeah, it's a really good ryegrass herbicide, except for the fact that it won't work during the time the year that you need to be spraying ryegrass. So a question I don't know that we have the answer to is how long does it need to be cool in order for it to not work or on the flip side, how long does it need to have warmed back up before it, you know, starts working again? I mean, it's like 24 hours or is it 96 hours? I have no idea.

[30:49] Tom Barber

Yeah, I don't know when. I can't answer that either. Anybody got any insight to that? Any data on that? Great point, Jason. Great point. Daniel, y'all's experience in Louisiana, anything to add with the shift to glufosinate?

[31:10] Daniel Stephenson

So the big the biggest fear that I've got, Tom, the biggest fear that I've gotten is that our guys don't have the understanding of how to use it properly. They're going to try to treat it like glyphosate. And, you know, Tom, Bob mentioned that and Jason, all you guys have mentioned something because you I've got a lot more experience spraying this particular AI over many acres for a while. And I think we're going to discover that this year. So the GPAs for the water, the nozzles, it does tend to cure a lot of ails down here because of the high humidity and the sense of the temperature, but the higher the humidity, the better it seems to work for us. I can do a lot of things with glufosinate. That's, kind of shocking, but I don't want to see a grower trying to because, you know, 15 gallons of water, nozzles, so on and so forth. But it's just, it's going to be a look and see to, to see if these growers are listening to what we say and then paying attention to what you guys have said in the past as far as whether it's going to be successful or not.

[32:22] Tom Barber

No, I agree, good, good comments there. And and just to recap a little bit of this discussion and I'd like to move on quickly to Enlist and talk a little bit about that. But just for as a reminder, for any applicators or farmers, growers out there, they're going to use glufosinate heavy this year. Number one, know which formulation you have. Whether it's a standard glufosinate 280, or if it's the glu L forms, which are, a little different rate structure. Or there's a 5 pound gallon, the Surmise 5 is out there. It is not glu L formulation, but it's your, rate structure is basically half of what a common glufosinate rate would be. So number one, check your labels. Make sure, which one you're using so you get your rate structure correctly. The Liberty Ultra has nothing ultra in it at all. So that's the misconception out there, I think. And one other key point, from the Liberty Ultra side is if we move to Enlist and we're using that in the enlist system, and we want to mix that with enlist one. There is an extra caveat there. We have to add MSO and actually, that was something I didn't know till maybe a week ago or two. Where it was brought to my attention. If you look, if we talk a little bit about the enlist system and you look at the Tank Mix website, it's just enlist tank mix.com, I think, it lists Liberty Ultra in the glufosinate section as needing an MSO to put with it. And I can sit here and say I have no data yet looking at that or what that might look like when we put, a Liberty Ultra with the enlist one with, especially if we add any group fifteens or something else to the tank. Does anybody on the podcast today have any data looking at that?

[34:32] Jason Norsworthy

I don't, Tom, but I'll tell you what, though, it would scare me. Well, I've seen I've seen where we've mixed liberty enlist one and glyphosate and you start mixing in, residual. And that's a lot of solvent load that you're putting in that sprayer.

[34:51] Tom Barber

I agree, and, I'm nervous too. And we actually have some cotton growing in the greenhouse right now, and it'll be one leaf by the end of the week. So I'm going to spray it in the, you know, in the greenhouse. It's really going to be hot. So it might be all dead next week I don't know. But we're going to spray it. We're going to spray it next week and just try to get a look at it, just to have some idea of what, you know, what we could be looking at with that. And I don't know if that's from a, I'm assuming, it didn't pass the droplet spectrum they needed without it would be my assumption is why that's added on there. But that's just an assumption.

[35:26] Jason Norsworthy

That's the Liberty, Liberty ultra label that's driving that. Or is the enlist one?

[35:31] Tom Barber

Well, it's on the Enlist tank mix.com website. When you when you look at that website. I pulled it up before our podcast this morning. And it separates the glufosinates and glyphosates on that website.

[35:46] Jason Norsworthy

And I’m curious who's going to walk that. Who's going to walk that. When it's injured though from a standpoint of being responsible for it?

[35:54] Tom Barber

Well, I was planning at the end of this podcast to to put Bob Scott's phone number at the end for all calls related to anything herbicide injury wise, hahahaha. Is that alright with everybody?

[36:06] Larry Steckel

Oh, yeah. I'm good with that, hahaha.

[36:13] Tom Barber

But yeah.

[36:13] Bob Scott

So let's just go ahead and make that for all states, Tom.

[36:16] Larry Steckel

Absolutely.

[36:18] Bob Scott

It's fine.

[36:19] Larry Steckel

Absolutely.

[36:22] Tom Barber

But if we talk a little bit about the list system kind of opened it up with that. Some key things. You know the label requires particular tank mixes, particular nozzles set up. All of that is on the website. There's no way we can cover that today on the podcast. But, check that website out. And I think you can get there. I did it this morning before we got going. And enlisttankmix.com, and there's, several options there. And in talking with some folks, just a general I guess with the system and I don't know, Larry or Daniel or Jason, y'all can chime in, but, I've been hearing that there's been some issues in the past mixing the case all glyphosate with Enlist one, causing the glyphosate to salt out. Now, I think in most of these cases, it's like we see with most mixing issues, we get where, the applicator, the farmers mixing them together before they put it in the tank of water. And so, you know, I don't know if anybody can speak to any of that, but I think we can get by with this or get past this issue, as well as many of our other mixing issues, if we make sure, like Bob and I were talking this morning, what is it, Bob? Fill the fill the tank a third of way or more with water and then add individually.

[37:42] Bob Scott

Yeah, I think Jason touched on it a minute ago. It's just when the vast percentage of your spray becomes chemical, especially at low GPA, these things start to happen. I, you know, I don't even know. That's something that I do a very good job looking at, Tom, just to be honest, because we do everything at ten gallons and we fill our little bottles up with water first and add to it. And I never, I never see these mixing problems. I believe it's, a lot of times it may be these modern sprayer rigs that have slurry tanks and, like Jason was saying, that solvent load and things act weird when they're at that high of concentration together with no water. So if it is one of these questionable things, you know, maybe going back old school on how we mix a tank, might avoid some of that, I don't know. But it's not something that we regularly look at.

[38:37] Tom Barber

Well, no. And I just wanted to bring it up because I think as people shift into the system that have not had any experience with the enlist or using enlist one tank mix with other products, I think it's just important that everybody reference that label that’s got specific tank mixing, instructions, their specific clean out instructions. And, and as we have multiple technologies in the state, and sprayers are used across technologies, I think clean out is going to be just as important as is set up. Larry, what were your thoughts on that?

[39:15] Larry Steckel

Yeah, a lot of the fundamental stuff, like, it seems like we're getting problems with the mixing, in at the induction tank. Well, they'll dump all the chemical into that induction tank and then pump it in one big glob into the tank, and then it never really separates. And and I think that's where we get into a lot of trouble. Instead of putting them in one at a time and getting them circulated, that that would take care of a lot of our issues.

[39:38] Jason Bond

I think, Larry, you get calls in and you ask, all right, what order did they put it in? And they tell you the order that they put it in this exact order that you would have told them to put an end if they had to call it test you first. And so then you're just left scratching your head on what happened, because that's exactly the way you would have done it. But then, you know, like you and Bob said, there's there's a dynamic to it that we don't deal with, you know, on the scale that we mix stuff at because we, you know, we do everything the same every time. And, you know, water wise, and it's just not a problem.

[40:14] Tom Barber

Yeah. So, you know, I think a lot of it, you know, we figure out as we go along, but nobody wants a tank full of mayonnaise, right?

[40:22] Larry Steckel

No, ugly.

[40:27] Tom Barber

So, but I think we can get away from most of them if we're mixing individually into the water. And again, not those products together. You know, one concern of mine, here in the state is that probably is some of y'all's is, you know, enlist cotton next to Xtend cotton and spraying that field right next to Xtend cotton and what that means. And, you know, I looked it up this morning on the label again and it you know, it says those sensitive crops, if they're downwind, you can't spray that field. And, I mean, that's pretty specific on their label and that the wind is actually needs to be blowing away from that field, wherever that is adjacent field. When you're making that application. Thoughts from the group on on concerns with it being next door. Daniel, I know you said you had some guys. Maybe Foreman just a little community of Enlist growers down there in an area or whatever. I'm assuming that's why.

[41:33] Daniel Stephenson

That's exactly why they're doing it. Just because they've had so much dicamba on them in the past. So they kind of learned the hard way. But that's exactly what I tell them.

[41:43] Jason Norsworthy

Hey, Tom, I'm got I got a question for Daniel. I mean, with those Enlist growers because Daniel, you were talking about just a second ago, the Johnson grass was a major issue that you were dealing with. I assume that is glyphosate resistant Johnson grass. And so when you're thinking about Enlist one, knowing that you get antagonism with your graminicide, what are you recommending? How are you handling that?

[42:15] Daniel Stephenson

So obviously, we're not tank mixing, and I don't suggest a tank mix with a graminicide with any 2,4-D. Liberty’s got some pretty good action, as you know, on the on Johnson grass. So kind of rotation of those, those products is what I recommend in the enlist technology. What we're running into now, Jason, is that the graminicides are beginning to fail in and of themselves. Really, because we just rode Clethodim so hard and didn't really introduce Liberty into the, into the rotation. So the guys get an Enlist crop and he's got a Johnson grass problem. I'm going to tell them about the utility of, of glufosinate and how well you know, it can work, although it's multiple applications and try to stick a graminicide in the rotation not as a tank mix.

[43:12] Jason Norsworthy

That sounds good. I mean, that's spot on with what I've done in the past is, like you said, you know, sequential applications of glufosinate. One application is not going to get it's sequential applications. And if you can get the gaminicide in there, don't don't tank mix it.

[43:26] Daniel Stephenson

Yeah. You know, kind of like a double knock. You know, what they talked about in Australia spray it with one then come back and hit it with the other, you know, graminicide then come back with a glufosinate something like that. So we've been I've seen some success with growers who have tried that. And well, it's an Xtend technology, but it's still worked.

[43:50] Bob Scott

Jason, I got a quick extension question. So I get called a lot about tank mixing the two. And I know we did work in the past of putting select with Liberty versus making separate applications. I'd be interested to know how you feel about that.

[44:10] Jason Norsworthy

It's been a while since I've looked at that Bob. You know, I looked at it on a glyphosate resistant Johnson grass population. And I was thinking, I mean, it's been probably nine, ten years ago now since I've looked at them. And I was I was thinking it it worked pretty well actually mixing those two.

[44:31] Bob Scott

That that's my memory as well, Jason. On that population.

[44:35] Larry Steckel

We had a lot go on goose grass and and jungle rice that’s Glyphosate resistant and escaping a lot of burndown, not early just late burn downs really. That worked well. Clethodim mixed with Liberty had had good luck with it.

[44:52] Tom Barber

So, Larry, on your jungle rice, I know it's really barnyard grass, but whatever the jungle rice. Do you like one Graminicide than the other? I mean, are you do you like slick in that tight mix or a classic them, or do you would you rather have a quizalofop or, you know, something like a fusillade or something?

[45:14] Larry Steckel

Yeah, that's a good question. We've done some work on it. Really haven't seen a big difference. Haven't looked at fusillade much. But Assure and Clethodim I've gotten pretty much equal equal control out of both of them. It's just the, the rate, you know, they you can't use those old rates like we used to use. You got to you got to be up there at a pint of a 2 pound and go up from there. Depending on the size and how stressed it is for other issues. And even right now with the ryegrass, that's what I'm getting lots of calls on. People aren't using the high enough rate. Or they're trying to mix that camber or an ox and in with it and, and and harming the control that way of grass. Yeah.

[45:57] Tom Barber

Well, that's, I know that barnyard grass for us, we call it all barnyard grass in Arkansas, Larry.

[46:05] Larry Steckel

I realize that, hahaha, yeah.

[46:07] Tom Barber

Barnyard grass for us, especially in our heavy rice rotation areas, that might be our key weed species we make an application on. So I think that's good information for our for our guys here. If even if they're not, you know, those that aren't dealing with pigweed as their number one weed. Grass control has been a big issue where I’ve seen any way at least especially later in the season. It seems like we lose it late for whatever reason. So any other comments on things to point out or focus on in an Enlist system moving forward?

[46:43] Larry Steckel

Only other thing I might bring up right quick is if folks aren't don't realize it. That Liberty Ultra, it has the new ESA label on it, and it needs three mitigation points. And we don't need to get into that in here because we haven’t got near enough time. But, you need to read that label and, and get online and make sure you got enough mitigation points in case you get checked by your Department of Agriculture.

[47:08] Tom Barber

Exactly right. Great point, Larry, and I'll just I did have a note to bring that up, and that's over here to the side and I missed it. But, the Enlist one or duo also those, those three products have have been through it I guess. And so the Enlist one it depends it they word it a lot different on the label. I wish it was all just simple, but it's 4 to 6 points depending on your if you're on a class A or B soils or class C or D soils. So more work to look up. But yeah, the point system does apply to those those two products right now. Any anything else that we hadn't talked about? Jason, you pulled up on my screen. Did you have anything?

[48:03] Jason Bond

Me or.

[48:03] Tom Barber

Yeah. Bond. Sorry. We got two. Jason's. Yeah. Bond.

[48:07] Jason Bond

No. Maybe my phone buzzed and, and activated the mic.

[48:13] Tom Barber

Well, I really appreciate all of y'all joining us today. I think it's been great discussion, and I wish we had more time. I know we need to cut this, particular episode down. I look forward to maybe visiting with y'all in the future on some other topics, but, any final comments from anybody? As we, close this episode?

[48:40] Larry Steckel

Yeah, I just hope everybody hangs in there. It's going to be a tough growing season. The economics, the way they are.

[48:47] Tom Barber

Yes. Very tough. Hard to say.

[48:51] Bob Scott

Yeah. You know, Larry, that that was going to be my final comment too, is it's not a year to jack around. I'd go with proven things that, you know will work or that you have a good idea of work, and it's not a good year to have a drift problem or, a compliance issue or anything like that. I mean, I, I think, what we've talked about here today, switching to these technologies earlier, applications, residuals up front. You know, I think is the most sound recommendation we can make, in a year where money's going to be really tight.

[49:27] Jason Norsworthy

I'd put Metribuzin on every acre that you can and mix it with another residual herbicide. I'll come back in as we close. Larry, I've yet to find a Metribuzin resistant pigweed and that herbicides amazing when you mix it with something else.

[49:43] Larry Steckel

Absolutely. It's it's it's one of the few bright spots we still got.

[49:52] Tom Barber

All right, well, again, thanks to Larry and Daniel and and Jason Bond for for joining the Arkansas guys today on our podcast. And I appreciate working with y'all over the years. I mean, we've got a lot of long history dating back to graduate school. So I appreciate all y'all do. And helping us and, and, trying to get the best information out to our growers and consultants and just folks that, that are working in ag. And so, with that, we'll end this episode and want to thank everybody for tuning in, to the Weeds AR Wild podcast on Arkansas Row Crops radio.

[50:34] Intro/Outro

Arkansas Row Crops Radio is a production of the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. For more information, please contact your local county extension agent or visit uaex.uada.edu